From: Geoff Haines-Stiles
From: "ALEX STORRS (410)-338-4903"
From: Marilyn Kenndy
From: CONDOSTAJ001@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU: Planet Choice
From: Kari TRMS
From: Lauren TRMS
From: Rob Theriaque
From: MikeE99562@aol.com: Planet Choice
From: JanF@aol.com: Focus on Jupiter
From: "John W. Miller"
From: Jan Wee
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From: Geoff Haines-Stiles
Here are some questions I found in your email along with some answers. If the questions are nearly similar, they appear together with a combined answer.
I got to most of the questions but not all. I hope this helps keep the ball rolling.
Marc
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What are the most interesting things about Pluto?
What are the most unique aspects of Pluto?
Some of our interest in Pluto is that of studying an planet of extremes.
What could possibly be gleaned from HST pictures?
What could give students the most satisfaction from this observation?
Is Pluto changing? If so what could we find from the changes?
A limited number of pictures of Pluto have already been taken with HST. These pictures show albedo patterns on the surface with very little computer processing.
The most exciting thing we will get from a set of Pluto pictures is a chance to discover changes in these albedo markings. These markings are the result of the distribution of frost overlying darker regions. If winds scour a region free of frost it would appear darker. If frosts collect on a region it will become brighter. Also, as Pluto moves away from the Sun, the solar energy input begins to diminish leaving the possibility of having some of the atmosphere freeze out on the surface. Not only is Pluto moving away from the sun, it is also moving toward winter in its southern hemisphere. Already, the 15 degrees of latitude closest to the south pole is in permanent night that will last for about 120 years. Without an atmosphere, the south pole could get very, very cold. However, the atmosphere can help transport energy from the lit pole to the unlit pole and would keep the pole from getting a lot colder. The observable effect of the atmospheric flow would be to systematically deposit frosts on the cold pole and deplete the frosts from the lit pole, thus making it darker. The rate at which the surface darkens will tell us about the global atmospheric circulation rates on Pluto.
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Apparently the HST is going to be of great use to students, what makes Pluto the most worthy of this project?
Of the four projects, this one has the most potential for seeing something no one else has seen (changes on the surface). Will we see it for sure? No one knows. It could look the same as it did 3 years ago when we last looked. It could look totally different (which would be a very big surprise). It could also be very slightly different which would show up as subtle changes from the last pictures.
No matter what, the pictures will show some structure on the surface and this structure can be turned into a map. If we look at Pluto just once, we get only one side. If we look at Pluto twice (opposite hemispheres), we would get most of the surface. With two pictures, portions of the surface will be highly foreshortened on the limb and we won't be able to say much about those areas. Three pictures are the absolute minimum to get a global mosaic of pictures covering the entire surface. More is always better but even our professional efforts 3 years ago netted us just 4 pictures, 90 degrees apart from one another. As always with science, one must trade off different goals. 3 separate orbits on Pluto will yield the best data on Pluto but you can't look at anything else. If you cut back to two (or one) picture on Pluto, you won't get as good of a map. So, everyone needs to decide if a picture of another planet is as important as filling in a complete map of Pluto.
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What has been learned recently about Pluto?
Just about everything we know about Pluto has been learned since 1980. Prior to that time all we really knew was where to look to find it and how long its day is (rotation period). Astronomers have finally been able to figure out quite a few things more recently. Some of these are:
"Is it too cold to have volcanoes? It's not too cold for Jupiter's moon, why not Pluto? Does it have any clouds or wind or any atmosphere at all? What kind of land is there? Is there going to be anything interesting on it at all? There probably isn't any life because it's so cold, but it'd be neat if we found something."
Pluto may be cold, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be things happening on the surface. Remember the Voyager spacecraft pictures of Neptune's moon, Triton? A couple of the pictures should very clearly an active geyser or plume rising from the surface. This isn't evidence for volcanoes like on the earth or Jupiter's moon, Io. It's more like "Old Faithful" in Yellowstone National Park. Old Faithful is caused by subsurface geothermal heating causing a buildup of steam pressure until it releases and spews out of the ground. In the case of Triton, one theory says that there is nitrogen ice being heated underground and the sublimating gas builds up pressure high enough to break free and causing the plume we see.
Could the same thing happen on Pluto? Well, sure. They are similar in size, surface composition, distance from the Sun, just about everything is the same. Is it happening? We don't know. Could we see these plumes from HST? No, not directly. These plumes are very, very small and our images would be very coarse. However, if a plume went off and deposited black gunk on the surface over a very large area, we could see that that area had gotten darker.
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SO THAT'S THE FIRST DIRECT RESPONSE FROM ONE OF OUR PLANET ADVOCATES. RETA BEEBE IS >VERY< BUSY SINCE THIS IS THE WEEK THAT GALILEO'S PROBE PLUNGES INTO JUPITER (DEC 7) BUT WE STILL HOPE TO HEAR BACK FROM HER AND THE OTHER 2 "P.A."S. SO KEEP THOSE ELECTRONIC CARDS AND LETTERS COMING, AS DISCUSS-HST BECOMES A REAL ONLINE DISCUSSION.
STAY COOL AND CONNECTED!
GEOFF HAINES-STILES
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From: "ALEX STORRS (410)-338-4903"
I should have introduced myself when I sent out the information on the heliocentric distances of Pluto and Neptune. I'm Alex Storrs, one of the planetary astronomers here at the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) and I'll be working on the details of planning, scheduling, and reducing the data from the LFHST programs. I've been lurking on the list since I found out it existed, and am happy to chime in with technical information as necessary, but would like to stay out of the debate. My research is on comets and asteroids anyway, which aren't on the menu...
I've been crazy about astronomy since about 3rd grade, and am very fortunate in being paid to do my hobby. But since I've been around it for so long, my vocabulary is warped. If its the words that are difficult, look 'em up (this is an educational activity, after all) but if the concept is unclear, please don't hesitate to ask me to explain.
Like the advocates, I too am dedicated to education as well as research. I feel that those of us who are supported by society for this process need to give something back. I don't think it is sufficient to publish a result in a professional journal-- it is incumbent on the researchers to inform the general public of their results as well. Besides, it can be a lot of fun.
So if you have specific questions, especially about what HST can do, don't hesitate to ask me. It may be better to ask via the general forum rather than directly to me, however, as I expect that many people will come up with the same question.
Cheers,
Alex Storrs
Space Telescope Science Institute
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From: Marilyn Kenndy
Dear discuss-hst members,
Like Jan, I also have been away for the past week. I was overwhelmed with my 80 something messages and spent a good part of Sunday downloading and reading my e-mail.
I wished I could have been at Tel-Ed to hear that LFS presentation. It sounded very impressive! But I was previously committed to and involved in a state sponsored 5 day workshop for science, math, and technology. While I was there, I stood on my little soapbox and sang the praises of integrated real- life science ....the Passport to Knowledge series. Instead of isolated gimmicky experiments which have no relation to anything I am doing, but just the gee whiz kind of stuff, I shared the experiences in our class when my students were involved with the LFS and the upcoming LHS projects. Real connections with real science and real people.
re: our Superstar, Roger!
First of all, congratulations to you Roger. It is an honor well-deserved! I
know how excited and proud your class and school must be! You truly are
making such a difference in the lives of so many. You are an awesome
teacher! What a priviledge and inspiration it is to work with you on these
Passport projects.
This past weekend, I attended a social function, not connected in any way shape or form with education. Most unusual for me! In fact, it was a very affluent group. I was in fact the only teacher there! As we conversed in the usual chit chat manner apropos of this type of occasion, I was very proud to mention that I was a teacher. But the response I received was something akin to, "Is that all you can do?". In fact, the only positive comments I received were from the several Japanese couples that were in attendence. Because most of my social functions usually involve other educators, I was truly shocked by the general reaction to my profession that night! SO, in my usual fiesty spirit, I responded with a 5 minute dissertation about the LFS, Jupiter, and LFHST projects. THERE TOO! I'll show them! I don't know whether they were impressed or not, but at least that kept them quiet!
One special person I did meet that night was a man connected with the early days of the Galileo project. He was truly excited by what the students were learning in all these projects. He had worked on the Galileo project til the Challenge Disaster, and then his department was eliminated. He then became involved in professional dancing and is now a dance instructor and performer. Quite a career change!
re: the Great Debate
Just before I left for the weeklong workshop, my students divided the back
wall into four sections, one for each of the four planet choices. I had
downloaded material from the Web and also used some laserdiscs for
information. One great source was the laserdisc called, "Planets: New
Discoveries" by Scott Resources. This disc takes the viewer on a
spectacular high-tech tour through the solar system, using the information
from the Viking, Voyageur, Magellan, and Galileo space probes. This program
does a wonderful job on showing how scientists are constantly revising what
we know about planets' moons, rings, and surface processes. I love to show
my students that learning is a process of change and revision, it is not an
accomplished fact. Learning it is an ongoing process.
Their assignment for the week while I was gone was to divide in teams and set up a debate for each planet. Than this week when I returned the great debate would be held, and we will vote for the one that presents the best argument. It will be interesting to see just what was really done while I was gone. I will keep you posted on this fourth grade "great debate". Until I hear their arguments, I will not share the responses on our discuss list so far. That might influence their choice.
re:Galileo Project
!995-96 is truly a year for space and cyberspace. My students have been
following the Galileo project for the past two months. Even with the
recorder glitches, my students are so excited and had been starting their
countdown to Dec. 7th.
Check out this past weekend's edition of USA today. There on page 4A is a wonderful summary of the Galileo project. Also last night on the Discovery channel was a wonderful hour broadcast about the Galileo project. Check your local listings there might be a rebroadcast of this program. It was wonderful. your students would love it.
Marilyn Wall
4th grade
John Wayland Elementary
Bridgewater, Virginia
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From: CONDOSTAJ001@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU: Planet Choice
From Connecticut the clear choice is Pluto, Pluto, Pluto!!!
J.R. Condosta
Western Connecticut State University
Astronomy Major
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From: Kari TRMS
I think we should study Pluto with the Hubble Space Telescope because it is the furthest away planet and right now it is at it's warmest temperature and we will have to wait 240 yrs. until it returns to this point.
Kari Cohen
8th grade
Taylor Road Middle School
Alpharetta, GA
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From: Lauren TRMS
I think that Pluto should be the focus of Live From the Hubble Space Telescope because it is the "last astronomers planet." It has reached a stage that if we don't study it now, we would have to wait 200 more years to study it. We are just starting to learn more about Pluto and it would bew interesting to get photos and compare them to previous ones. It is good to keep a close look on this planet because it is changing. If Pluto is chosen, it will also be a good opportunity to study its unusual orbit around the sun.
Lauren Mitchell
Eighth Grade
Taylor Road Middle School
Alpharetta, Georgia
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From: Rob Theriaque
The students in the Aerospace Studies class at Nashua Senior High School have recently completed an extensive survey of the proposed planets and would like to submit the following recommendations for the Live From Space HST investigation.
We feel the Neptune is the planet that should be explored more by using the Hubble Space Telescope. Many different aspects of Neptune are unknown. It could possibly be said that Neptune is a mystery. It should be explored and looked at through the Hubble Telescope to uncover the unknown.
Because Neptune is 2.8 billion miles from the earth we can not see it clearly thorough our atmosphere. Therefore we could learn a great deal about it from the Hubble Telescope. Among the items we would like to examine further are the rings and moons. It is believed that Neptune is accompanied with four or five rings and eight or more moons, but clearer images might clarify this data. There are two dark spots on Neptune that are believed to be tropical storms. One is called the "Great Dark Spot" which circles east to west around Neptune. The other is considered the "Dark Spot II" and it rotates in the opposite direction of the "Great Dark Spot." In between the two dark spots lies a white spots lies a white spot known as the "scooter" that rotates south of the "Great Dark Spot." No one knows where this white spot came from and what is is exactly, so with the Hubble Telescope examining Neptune we could possibly find out more on the "scooter", the causes of the dark spots, and even may discover additional storms.
One of Neptune's moons, Triton, seems to be different from any other moons in the solar system. It rotates the opposite way of Neptune which is unusual (it rotates backwards from any other moons.). This moon has a volcano on it, but also has ice geysers. Some where on that moon there is a heat source which we would like to understand. Many scientists seem to think that Triton came from some where else in the solar system. We will never know for sure unless studies are done on it by using the Hubble Space Telescope we can explore Neptune more thoroughly. Triton seems to be one of the biggest mysteries about the Neptune. It is possible that it may not even belong to the planet Neptune. By using the Hubble Space Telescope we can hopefully solve the mysteries and unknowns of Neptune. It will help us educate ourselves more on our solar system.
We have examined the other choices and feel that Jupiter will be well covered by the Galileo probe over the next few years. Uranus has many interesting aspects and could fulfill the goals of the project very nicely, but we feel that Neptune offers more unknowns. Pluto is quite unknown, we agree, but we feel that the limited time allowed would not gather nearly as much useful information. We have looked at images of Pluto taken by Hubble, and find little that can be studied without extremely sophisticated equipment and greater knowledge of imaging techniques. We feel that many observations of Neptune would offer more strikingly visual information.
Thank you,
Nashua Senior High School
Aerospace Studies
Rob Theriaque, instructor
"Science is a process. It is a way of thinking, a manner of approaching and of possibly resolving problems, a route by which one can produce order and sense out of disorganized and chaotic observations."
Isaac Asimov
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From: MikeE99562@aol.com: Planet Choice
Carver High School Magnet Program. 108 strong, votes Pluto!
Mike Edmondson
Carver High
Science/Technology Lead
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From: JanF@aol.com: Focus on Jupiter
I believe that we should take a look at Jupiter. In my opinion, it is the most interesting of the four planets. One neat thing about Jupiter is its weather. I'd like to learn about the large storms and fast winds. It is great that it is being studied by the Galileo. It will be fun to learn about this mysterious planet if it is chosen.
Justin France
Eighth Grade
Lakeshore Junior High School
Parker, Colorado
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From: "John W. Miller"
Hello all,
My name is John Miller and I teach 8th grade science and math in King City CA. While my science classes are absorbed with Galileo, I thought I would let my math class have some fun - not that they don't love to come to class everyday! Anyway, any HST math related activities would be appreciated (thanks in advance).
We are currently observing the debate and will be expressing ourselves soon. Thanks to Alex Storrs for volunteering to help with HST questions. We download each new image as it becomes available.
The kids get a kick seeing it before it reaches the evening news!
John Miller
San Lorenzo Middle School
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John W. Miller Email:mill3000@spacelink.msfc.nasa.gov
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From: Jan Wee
update Dear discuss-hst,
Pat Haddon suggested a helpful idea .... "How about identifying your geographic location when you send in your class' vote!" I will extend that a bit and ask whether you are a classroom teacher or "other," please identify your location for those interested in plotting our membership on a *world map.* Thanks for the suggestion, Pat!
Thanks to:
Massapequa High School, Raymond H. Hahn, Science Teacher
Marilyn Wall--4th grade--John Wayland Elementary,
Carver High School Magnet Program--Mike Edmondson
Justin France --Eighth Grade --Lakeshore Junior High School--Parker,
Colorado
Lauren Mitchell & Kari Cohen--Eighth Grade--Taylor Road Middle School
--Alpharetta, Georgia
Nashua Senior High School--Rob Theriaque, Instructor
JR Condosta--Western Connecticut State University (Astronomy Major)
Alex Storrs, Planetary Astronomy from the Space Telescope Science
Institute
Pat Haddon, Summit Middle School, Summit, NJ
All of whom posted their input to this forum within the last day or so!
I would like to remind everyone that we will need to works towards a *CONSENSUS* (general agreement) rather than tally individual votes... so, be prepared to work towards this by December 15th.
Please share the *process* by which you and your students reach your decision! Please explain how and why your class reached the decision!
We encourage classrooms to post group consensus rather than individual postings, as it gives us a better representation of your entire class and assists in keeping the postings within a reasonable number on a day-to-day basis. Classes that need to have individuals posting (due to organizational needs) might consider attaching the files into one longer posting rather than a series of individual ones. This also helps those members of the list who might have costs assessed per email message received.
Looking forward to more discussion! Will it be Pluto? Neptune? Uranus? or Jupiter? Counting down .... 11 days to D-DAY.... DECISION-DAY!
Jan Wee, disucss-hst moderator
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